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Joined: Oct 07, 2003 Posts: 670 Location: In South Australia where its freezing cold.
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:44 am Post subject: Kermishi's Website
Dear Albia2000 forumgoers,
It has come to my attention that one 'Kermishi' has been hosting our addons and agents WITHOUT PERMISSION. This is totally rude, and an enormous breach of etiquette, and it needs to stop immediately.
I sent him the following PM, asking him to remove AC from his website:
Quote:
Please remove AC from your site. I've not given you permission to host it, and I would prefer if you didn't.
Thanks.
And in return, this is what he sent me.
Quote:
What is AC? Tell me and I'll remove it.
If he had read the readme, he would know I'm the one responsible for Aquatilis Caverna. If someone asks you to remove something from your site, you do not send a smart comment back, you check the readme and then do it immediately.
Other agents hosted are Data's C2 Asterix, Obelix and Getafix critters; Tomtschek's Norngarden and more. This has got to stop! _________________ - Liam
Joined: Dec 30, 2006 Posts: 11 Location: South Australia
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:03 am Post subject:
As for my cobs, I made sure I had a working email address in the readme files before uploading to creatures caves so that people could contact me if needed. I might have said yes if asked but now I'm not so sure. Besides not being asked, the lack of proper credit is annoying the hell out of me. He just says "Creatures Caves" as author. Uh, no, I made them long before CC.com was even around. They were hosted on my site on several servers, the last being on Chani's until a couple of years ago. Not asking permission and giving the wrong credit - a big no-no. As a bare minimum, he needs to recheck with the creators of each file AND if he gets permission, give correct permission. I'd also suggest instead of hosting, perhaps have a link to the download PAGE where they can be found. Not the file itself as that's just as rude as taking without asking - it's leeching/bandwidth theft. He's just lucky he doesn't have any of Wafuru's files - she'd castrate him! Right before notifying the site hosts with a cease & desist notice.
And before he cries innocent, I have it on good authority that he was contacted with a polite warning that fixing these things would be a good idea last week. I held off mentioning anything because I'd heard he planned to fix it the next day. Well, it's a lot longer than "tomorrow" so time's up
Joined: Jan 27, 2004 Posts: 1049 Location: Killing Stuff
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:56 am Post subject:
O.k this is fixed. I have removed the downloads section all together. I was planning on removing it the day after but family issues arose and it has been tough on me. And for your information:
Liam wrote:
And in return, this is what he sent me.
Quote:
What is AC? Tell me and I'll remove it.
Was not a smart comment. I was asking what AC was. I was not sure what it was. _________________
Joined: Dec 30, 2006 Posts: 11 Location: South Australia
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:57 am Post subject:
Kermishi wrote:
O.k this is fixed. I have removed the downloads section all together. I was planning on removing it the day after but family issues arose and it has been tough on me.
Well, as I said, it would have been nice if you'd asked the people who developed the agents first. It's just polite. And the credit was a big sticking point in my case. We didn't want to get agro about it. So, if you'd give credit & ask first, then I'm sure people won't mind you hosting their creations. And if they say no to hosting, then ask if you can put in a link to the page the creator has the item on. It's easier for all. We're not all monsters (well, maybe sometimes we can get a bit cranky but we do try)
Now, the other HUGE advantage if you point people to the page where they can download is if that agent is still being worked on. If people all over are hosting copies it's almost impossible for the person who wrote it to make sure ALL copies on websites are up to date. That's also where no credit or incorrect credit can cause you grief - people don't know who wrote it so can't check for updates.
It sounds to me like you're pretty young. It's nice to see new Creatures sites appearing. Having been around for a while (even if I only joined A2K recently - I still remember when it was glaringly bright and I'm sorry to say the old version put me off for a while) I've seen the numbers sadly slipping over time since DS days. So don't take the complaints to heart, keep working on it. Just remember your manner please. If you're not sure about something, ask. Your fellow Creatures players are always willing to help if asked nicely. To quote Embri:
Embri wrote:
The Creatures Community has been around for a pretty long time, and has developed its own code of conduct, if you will, which sadly isn't written down - it's more learned from others as you go along.
Joined: Jan 27, 2004 Posts: 1049 Location: Killing Stuff
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:05 am Post subject:
Thanks. I would not be able to ask about the agents as my parents hate me e-mailing people I don;t know and they monitor my e-mail so it was best to remove the agents. _________________
Joined: Dec 30, 2006 Posts: 11 Location: South Australia
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:16 am Post subject:
Kermishi wrote:
Thanks. I would not be able to ask about the agents as my parents hate me e-mailing people I don;t know and they monitor my e-mail so it was best to remove the agents.
Well, you still have the second option. Have your download page send people to the page on the author's website where the download is accessible. I highly doubt anyone would have issues with that provided you mention it on your site. Plus, if the author is available on A2K or Creatures Caves, why not PM them and ask there? I never hurts.
Hope I haven't sounded like an ogre. Glad you're willing to discuss it - in the past some people have had the attitude of "if it's online, it's free for me to do with as I like" which is certainly not the case. But at least in the Creatures Community, people are a lot more forgiving and willing to share. We just liked to be asked first
Joined: Dec 30, 2006 Posts: 11 Location: South Australia
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:28 am Post subject:
Kermishi wrote:
I agree there. I might just link to sites. It's going to be alot of work though. After all, I have just deleted it all...
Sounds like you did my trick - I got sick of people grabbing my reserved slot for a breed, so I deleted the lot. Though I found backups several years later. Mostly just the render scripts though, so it'd take hundreds of rendering hours alone to start again, let alone editing all the output bitmaps in prep for importing them to sprite files, making ATT files, etc. And no one seems interested anymore, anyway.
Anyway, the redirect is safest option if there's no way to contact the creator. If you have a way to ask, then go for it. The other advantage of redirect - if your host doesnt give you much room, that's more room for your own stuff
Joined: Jan 27, 2004 Posts: 1049 Location: Killing Stuff
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:30 am Post subject:
I have heaps of room to put stuff in. Way more than I can use. I'm not gonna put the downloads up again as it's gonna be too much hard work. _________________
Joined: Oct 07, 2003 Posts: 670 Location: In South Australia where its freezing cold.
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:59 am Post subject:
Thanks, Kermishi, I appreciate it.
It's just that I've put an awful lot of work into Aquatilis Caverna, and it really bugs me when people host it without proper credit. If you've ever put that much time into a project, you'd understand where I'm coming from.
I would have thought it would have been faaairly easy to link 'AC' to 'Aquatilis Caverna', but perhaps not.
In future, though - if you have any ideas, please check with the forum first; generally the forumgoers are more than happy to help and give you advice or suggestions. _________________ - Liam
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